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SaberGal
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: OSBI Interviews |
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Hey folks.....have not seen RD's OSBI interview but I was wondering if she had an attorney present with her during questioning? How long after Kelsey's death did this interview take place?
I know the normal reaction is to cooperate fully with the police - especially if you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. However, I have learned that in many of these wrongful conviction cases, one of the very first mistakes a person can make is talking to LE without an attorney present.
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Kristi
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| The first OSBI interview took place 2 days after Kelsey died, she did not have an attorney present. Unfortunately she was very naive and even told the interview, "my dad always told me if I told the truth it would be fine" he responded with "not this time" |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kristi wrote: | | The first OSBI interview took place 2 days after Kelsey died, she did not have an attorney present. Unfortunately she was very naive and even told the interviewer, "my dad always told me if I told the truth it would be fine" he responded with "not this time" |
Sadly, that's the case with many innocent people who are wrongfully convicted. They were raised with the myth, "the police are your friends," which is NOT the case when YOU or any average citizen is accused of a crime. Especially where an adult or child has been killed or abused. The police have an automatic presumption of guilt whenever a person is suspected of murder, which many people don't know. That is why anyone accused of a crime, especially murder, should NEVER, EVER talk to police without a good criminal defense attorney present.
When a child has been killed, or abuse is suspected or alleged, it gets even worse for the person accused. The accusation usually becomes the "evidence," and the rush to judgment begins. From all I have read of this case, jurors had their minds made up long before voir dire (jury selection) even began.
I think we should all bear the immortal words of Edward R. Murrow in mind when we might be tempted to rush to judgment ourselves:
"We must remember, always, that accusation is NOT proof, and that conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
And we should repeat these words as often as necessary, both in the courtroom and out. The public is in bad need of a reminder.
J 
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Kristi wrote: | | The first OSBI interview took place 2 days after Kelsey died, she did not have an attorney present. Unfortunately she was very naive and even told the interview, "my dad always told me if I told the truth it would be fine" he responded with "not this time" |
Kristi, what part of the OSBI interviews, if any, were used against RD at her trial? I would assume they were tape recorded. The problem with recorded interviews is that police can still find ways to "doctor" them and then deny they did any such thing.
Also, how much investigation of K. Briggs' background was ever done by RD's attorney? A lot, a little or none? Only you and others know if anything was done by her attorney in this part of the defense.
The important thing in a case like this one is for the defense to find out anything that can seriously impeach, or even destroy, that witness's credibility when under cross-examination. Such as the matter of KB's giving up custody of her own children in 1979, with that infamous line she uttered to a DHS worker. I would think that HAS to be a matter of public record, there's no way to bury it, not even for KB.
Was there anyone in the DHS that wasn't on KB's side in this case, and would know where to look for those records?
J
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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Kristi
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JUSTICE1st wrote: | | Kristi wrote: | | The first OSBI interview took place 2 days after Kelsey died, she did not have an attorney present. Unfortunately she was very naive and even told the interview, "my dad always told me if I told the truth it would be fine" he responded with "not this time" |
Kristi, what part of the OSBI interviews, if any, were used against RD at her trial? I would assume they were tape recorded. The problem with recorded interviews is that police can still find ways to "doctor" them and then deny they did any such thing.
Also, how much investigation of K. Briggs' background was ever done by RD's attorney? A lot, a little or none? Only you and others know if anything was done by her attorney in this part of the defense.
The important thing in a case like this one is for the defense to find out anything that can seriously impeach, or even destroy, that witness's credibility when under cross-examination. Such as the matter of KB's giving up custody of her own children in 1979, with that infamous line she uttered to a DHS worker. I would think that HAS to be a matter of public record, there's no way to bury it, not even for KB.
Was there anyone in the DHS that wasn't on KB's side in this case, and would know where to look for those records?
J |
I'm not sure exactly what was used at trial, unfortunately all we have so far to rely on are the reporters trial notes until the transcripts are done. TS may have a better idea than me on that one.
As for DHS, at first none of them were really on KB's side, they were very annoyed with her constant complaints and told her to quit calling multiple times. |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Kristi wrote: | | JUSTICE1st wrote: | | Kristi wrote: | | The first OSBI interview took place 2 days after Kelsey died, she did not have an attorney present. Unfortunately she was very naive and even told the interview, "my dad always told me if I told the truth it would be fine" he responded with "not this time" |
Kristi, what part of the OSBI interviews, if any, were used against RD at her trial? I would assume they were tape recorded. The problem with recorded interviews is that police can still find ways to "doctor" them and then deny they did any such thing.
Also, how much investigation of K. Briggs' background was ever done by RD's attorney? A lot, a little or none? Only you and others know if anything was done by her attorney in this part of the defense.
The important thing in a case like this one is for the defense to find out anything that can seriously impeach, or even destroy, that witness's credibility when under cross-examination. Such as the matter of KB's giving up custody of her own children in 1979, with that infamous line she uttered to a DHS worker. I would think that HAS to be a matter of public record, there's no way to bury it, not even for KB.
Was there anyone in the DHS that wasn't on KB's side in this case, and would know where to look for those records?
J |
I'm not sure exactly what was used at trial, unfortunately all we have so far to rely on are the reporters trial notes until the transcripts are done. TS may have a better idea than me on that one.
As for DHS, at first none of them were really on KB's side, they were very annoyed with her constant complaints and told her to quit calling multiple times. |
Hmmmm. Then I have to wonder what or WHO changed their minds.
J
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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Truth Seeker
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I can tell, all the officials were happy with Mike Porter's charges of sexual assault and murder. Then you know who stepped in. Maybe these posts made by her will answer your questions. FYI - She is after Howard Hendrick's job and personally went after Judge Key and replaced him with a less qualified judge with her phone calls to all the voters' homes stating Judge Key murdered Kelsey.
kjbriggs
Kelsey's Grandma
Posts: 1,122
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RE: I don't understand! Kelsey's case was marked HIGH PRIORITY. If this is what happens when you are high priority what kind of care do the others get? Our First Lady, Kim Henry, called Howard Hendrick personally and asked him to check on Kelsey. This is how he acknowledged her request. He turned it over to someone else and did not take care of the situation. He snubbed his nose at her request because he can and no one is doing anything about it. If the Governor's wife and the cousin to Kelsey cannot save a child the other children in this state don't have a chance under Howard Hendricks eye.
Our County Director, Debra Winn, knew this was a HIGH PROFILE case and she allowed her workers to make the decisions. It was her job as their supervisor to make sure Kelsey was safe. I have emails from her stating she noticed Kelsey's decline, yet she did nothing. She alone could have saved a child's life and she is still in charge of other children. How safe are they?
Look at Kelsey's face. Look at the other pictures of her? How could any HUMAN not notice a problem? These people have degrees? In what?
03-13-2007 11:33 AM
Kelsey's Grandma
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RE: The Media Britten Follett is planning a story tonight on Fox at 9:00.
As most of you already know we are under a gag order. I cannot answer most of the questions that have been presented to me. The fact is there are things we still do not know in this case. We are pleased with the amended charge and hope it will lead to more answers and possibly the truth.
You learn a lot about how the justice system works when you are in our shoes and I would not wish this on anyone. You watch murder shows with a new insight into what they are doing. You learn to keep secrets like never before. You search your brain over and over to remember things that were said in the past that now have new meaning. You are able to ignore comments from those that think they know more. Then you are able to laugh along the way when people are critical over things you do when they have no idea what it is like to be us. You learn to do what feels right, to make decisions based on personal reasons and not public perception, you learn to live with a new life that you never asked for.
On a positive note....you learn most people are very supportive and kind hearted. You have friends that you would never have met and will always treasure. You learn a new appreciation for the little things in life. You know God will lead you along the way and keep you strong so you can deal with this on a daily basis now and forever.
03-17-2007 11:08 AM
kjbriggs
Kelsey's Grandma
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RE: Greetings and hugs from Australia! There are multiple civil suits still pending on Kelsey's case. They include the state agencies that failed Kelsey along with the individuals in those agencies. The two doctors that misdiagnosed her broken legs and the medical facility that employed them have malpractice suits pending. Once the criminal trials are over there most likely will be others filed. Judges have imunity in our country and in our state. Basically they can make a fatal mistake and knowingly break a law and get by with it. Unless we get a petition and possibly a grand jury investigation he could very well get away with this.
Bottom line....we are not close to being finished. Justice for Kelsey will not be accomplished by sending two people to prison. I made a promise to Kelsey and we are in it for the long haul. Her life was short, but this fight will not be.
I would like to add we could not do as much as we do without the people on this site. I know who each and every person is that has stood by us. Some I have never personally met, but they are lifetime friends. Some may feel they are not able to contribute as much by living out of our area. Just posting a caring is a contribution. Each person that cares about a child and the horrible things that goes on in our world can make a difference.
03-20-2007 11:55 PM
3-22-2007
kjbriggs
Kelsey's Grandma
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Post: #67
RE: The Media
Within one week children are taken from the home for major neglect, returned without a show cause hearing, never seeing a Judge, and one of them dies suspiciously. What next?
No, George we do not think thsese children fell through the cracks. There are no cracks in Oklahoma's DHS system, just big giant black holes where the questions go in and the answers never come out. Why is that? What do we have to do to reform this agency? Wait for dozens more children die? Honestly, how can DHS continue to get by with NEGLECT? Parents get charged or should for allowing children to be abused or neglected, but our agencies designed to protect them gets by with neglectful acts continually.
Where is our Governor? Isn't he basically the HEAD of DHS? Why doesn't he clean house and show Mr. Hendrick if we don't see improvement we won't see him either?
3-25-2007
kjbriggs
Kelsey's Grandma
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RE: The Media
Most of the high profile news shows have been contacted. We encourage anyone to send this story to anyone you feel would take an interest. A magazine would be a great place to get some interest started. Please keep us posted on your progress. We have several members that continue to work on this.
kjbriggs
Kelsey's Grandma
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RE: 2yr. old's death becomes part of judicial campaign
I wonder if our District Attorney does not get a conviction if this will be an issue in his next election? I wonder if Logan Tucker's case will be an issue in Woodward if that case is not handled properly? I know David Prater is using cases against Wes Lane in his campaign. Using someone's past cases in a campaign is not out of the ordinary during a campaign. It brings public awareness to the candidates performance on the job. Negative campaigning is spreading flyers around town that have nothing to do with the campaign. Yes, this is what the Key supporters have been doing. Negative campaigning is having others sign their names to letters that have been written for them.
Judge Craig Key has called the paternal grandmother's of a dead child some choice names and we have the tape. Doesn't sound like the type of thing a fine Christian man would do, does it? If Sheila Kirk really wanted a nasty campaign I can assure you she has the ammunition. She may get up on November 8th and wish she had, but I really don't think so. Win, Lose, or Draw she will be proud of what she has done in her efforts to bring ethics back to the courthouse.
This post was last modified: 11-04-2006 11:38 AM by kjbriggs.
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Truth Seeker
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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FYI - Lance sued everyone and had a 15 million dollar lawsuit against the state. Every single lawsuit was thrown out of court. The Briggs were unable to prove any wrongdoing of anyone including the state, doctors, etc.
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"The Bible calls children a blessing, and debt a curse. Yet we apply for
curses and prevent blessings!" (Doug Phillips) |
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Obsessed Hod
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Raye's OSBI |
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Raye was very forthcoming during her OSBI - they uses quite a bit against her during trial.
The vomiting - she discussed how Kelsey would vomit after being left with MP. they used that against her saying that she should have known...something was up..
I disagree - because Raye said over and over that Kelsey didn't cry or become overly anxious when she would leave her with Mike. Maybe only pucker like she was going to cry - that is NOT the sign of a child who is overly upset.
Of course they left out the part where Raye said that this was all within two to 3 weeks prior to her death - not 10 long months of abuse, as they made it seem.. they also left out the part where Raye said that she never actually "saw" the vomit. That Kelsey would just be changed, or in the bath, or what ever - that to me is a DEAD GIVEAWAY that he was assaulting her!! And "cleaned" her up - he just BLAMED it on the vomiting, and Raye was so naive, she believed him...
They also used the eyes taped shut incident - that came from the OSBI too... they didn't tell the jury that this incident happened on the SAME DAY as the shampoo incident - which was THE WEEK BEFORE she was killed...
The tape incident for all outward purposes PISSED Raye off, and they fought about it - his argument was that it was a joke and all of the kids were playing...they left the part about Rye and him arguing about it for a week - out of the trial... I argue with my hubby and his crazy antics all the time!!
They picked and pulled from the OSBI - I have what was posted on the KP website ( I am sure it's not complete) but I also have my notes with it - if anyone wants what I have you are welcome to email me at chris@hodtek.com
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Raye's OSBI |
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| Obsessed Hod wrote: | Raye was very forthcoming during her OSBI - they uses quite a bit against her during trial.
The vomiting - she discussed how Kelsey would vomit after being left with MP. they used that against her saying that she should have known...something was up..
I disagree - because Raye said over and over that Kelsey didn't cry or become overly anxious when she would leave her with Mike. Maybe only pucker like she was going to cry - that is NOT the sign of a child who is overly upset.
Of course they left out the part where Raye said that this was all within two to 3 weeks prior to her death - not 10 long months of abuse, as they made it seem.. they also left out the part where Raye said that she never actually "saw" the vomit. That Kelsey would just be changed, or in the bath, or what ever - that to me is a DEAD GIVEAWAY that he was assaulting her!! And "cleaned" her up - he just BLAMED it on the vomiting, and Raye was so naive, she believed him...
They also used the eyes taped shut incident - that came from the OSBI too... they didn't tell the jury that this incident happened on the SAME DAY as the shampoo incident - which was THE WEEK BEFORE she was killed...
The tape incident for all outward purposes PISSED Raye off, and they fought about it - his argument was that it was a joke and all of the kids were playing...they left the part about Rye and him arguing about it for a week - out of the trial... I argue with my hubby and his crazy antics all the time!!
They picked and pulled from the OSBI - I have what was posted on the KP website ( I am sure it's not complete) but I also have my notes with it - if anyone wants what I have you are welcome to email me at chris@hodtek.com |
Unfortunately, this happens all the time in criminal cases, and the innocent person who is either falsely or mistakenly accused has NO IDEA that she (or he) has already been judged "guilty" by police and state agencies simply because the accusation was made.
We were conditioned to believe that "the police are our friends," which is only true if we are NOT accused of committing a crime. We worry about "what will they think" if we ask a lawyer to be with us." Who CARES what they think, they already think we're "guilty," which WE know is not true!
However, we were also told things like, "just tell the truth, and it will be all right." WRONG! Having such a dangerously naive belief plays right into the hands of law enforcement...and the accused right into a jail/prison cell.
This is why criminal defense attorneys constantly tell us, with good reason, NEVER to talk to police without an attorney present! Prosecutors cannot use words that were never spoken.
J
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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Obsessed Hod
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Attorney present and accounted for.... |
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SADLY - she did have an attorney present during this interrogation.
Her attorney was a great guy, and no doubt a wonderful attorney - but I think he was asleep at the wheel on this one.
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Attorney present and accounted for.... |
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| Obsessed Hod wrote: | SADLY - she did have an attorney present during this interrogation.
Her attorney was a great guy, and no doubt a wonderful attorney - but I think he was asleep at the wheel on this one. |
My question; what kind of attorney was he? Was he a criminal defense attorney, and if so, did he have any idea how to handle a false allegations case? From what you're describing, I am thinking two things; either he wasn't, or he was having an extremely bad day when he sat in on Raye's interrogation. Who recommended him? Someone Raye knew, or did she just go hunting through the local yellow pages?
An experienced and alert attorney is supposed to make sure that an interview does NOT turn into an all-out interrogation, and to stop the interview as soon as it shows the first sign of becoming one. It doesn't appear to me THIS attorney did that.
Please understand that this is NOT a slam at criminal defense attorneys or lawyers as a whole. I am saying that just like doctors, accountants or any other professional group, there are very good ones, mediocre ones, and even very bad ones. It is no different for lawyers. And there is no way for the average person to tell one from the other unless you know what his or her professional record is.
J
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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OKplainsmom
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Oklahoma Plains
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Attorney present and accounted for.... |
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My question; what kind of attorney was he? Was he a criminal defense attorney, and if so, did he have any idea how to handle a false allegations case? From what you're describing, I am thinking two things; either he wasn't, or he was having an extremely bad day when he sat in on Raye's interrogation. Who recommended him? Someone Raye knew, or did she just go hunting through the local yellow pages?
An experienced and alert attorney is supposed to make sure that an interview does NOT turn into an all-out interrogation, and to stop the interview as soon as it shows the first sign of becoming one. It doesn't appear to me THIS attorney did that.
Please understand that this is NOT a slam at criminal defense attorneys or lawyers as a whole. I am saying that just like doctors, accountants or any other professional group, there are very good ones, mediocre ones, and even very bad ones. It is no different for lawyers. And there is no way for the average person to tell one from the other unless you know what his or her professional record is.
J [/quote]
He was a personal injury attny that also was a former prosecutor. I think that if she had hired a criminal defense attny that the case would have had a much different outcome. He didn't cross examine witnesses that were lying & bring their lies to light. I think he knew that Raye was innocent and thought that would be enough. Obviously it wasn't! |
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JUSTICE1st
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Attorney present and accounted for.... |
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| OKplainsmom wrote: |
He was a personal injury attny that also was a former prosecutor. I think that if she had hired a criminal defense attny that the case would have had a much different outcome. He didn't cross examine witnesses that were lying & bring their lies to light. I think he knew that Raye was innocent and thought that would be enough. Obviously it wasn't! |
That's what I thought; that he wasn't a specialist either in criminal defense OR at false allegations cases. There is a private investigator who has made it a large part of his practice to do the background checking of any false accuser, and then present his findings to the defense attorney on the case. He has worked with a few excellent attorneys who WERE experienced at defending false allegations cases at trial.
The investigator's name is Allen Cowling, and his website address is:
http://www.allencowling.com
One thing to remember; do NOT call him personally, unless you know you are going to hire him. And yes, he is expensive, but he does have a high success rate, although it is not a guarantee. He has had some very upsetting situations where the attorney did not follow Mr. Cowling's recommendations, and the client was convicted because of the attorney's failure.
As you will see on his website, he has a HUGE amount of printed information that he has specifically written for people who cannot afford his services personally. Do as much reading there as you can first. He has a page that also lists attorneys he has worked with and who defended his clients successfully at trial. Raye needs a specialist in this kind of criminal defense work and a skilled false allegations defense attorney, not someone who doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
J
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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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Nicks momom
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Thought this was interesting:
The US~Observer believes that ALL evidence and documentation relating to the Kelsey Smith-Briggs' case should be unsealed and published. The Ryan Luke Law demands it and now that Raye Smith's trial is concluded there is no justifiable reason to circumvent this landmark law. By doing so the public has the opportunity to see both the real evidence and the lack of evidence to support the vindictive and careless accusations of the Briggs family.
Kathie Briggs now claims, "I am no longer obsessed with Raye, she is in prison." Briggs' statement shows the public the direct correlation between Kathie's "obsession" and a desire to see Kelsey's mother behind bars. Yet, neither evidence nor justice comes into play. Kathie has only recently begun to transcribe and publish the OSBI interviews with Michael Porter (step-father) and Raye Smith (Kelsey's mother). Her actions beg many questions.
First and foremost, "How did the Briggs come to possess these documents?" Originally, only four entities had copies: the OSBI, District Attorney Richard Smothermon, Michael Porter's attorney and Raye Smith's attorney. Being non-public records the OSBI would not have handed them over. Smith's attorney did not hand them over. This leaves only DA Smothermon and Michael Porter, who we know spent over two months after his arrest for the murder and sexual assault of Kelsey talking and meeting with the Briggs. It's unlikely that Porter would have given them to the Briggs as his interview with the OSBI sharply conflicts with what he tells Kathie in the dozens of intimate emails they shared.
Additionally, we are left asking, "Why take the time to transcribe and publish them now?" Briggs claims her obsession with Smith that went into full swing in December of 2004 had finally come to an end with Smith's incarceration in July of 2007. Briggs has had these documents, so why distribute them after the case has been tried and her obsession is over?
Finally, we have to ask, "Why publish them incomplete?" Why only print parts of Porter's interview? What is Briggs afraid the public will see? Why continue to share only portions of records while disregarding and omitting others? Just as with dozens of emails with Porter we are being told to only listen to the latest explanation being spouted from the figurehead. Yes, pay no attention to the woman behind the website. No doubt, she will quickly type out the omitted portions after the full versions are publish here and couple it with a glazed explanation.
In an effort to see the full and unedited documents regarding Kelsey's case publish we are now seeking to make all of the OSBI interviews available to the public, starting with Michael Porter. Although we have been unable to discover the source of these documents, we have been able to substantiate their authenticity.
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Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now.
Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
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