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Hotwater
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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billpavelic
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I have been watching this "terrorist" case and concluded that it is based on overzealous prosecution. It is apparent that these homless and indigent individual souls were used as a political tool for the Bush administration Homeland Security and Justice Department's propaganda purposes. The entire case was based on classical law enforcement entrapment and fiction. The U.S. Attorney's Office should be ashamed of themselves for targeting and framing these people for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Pavelic |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| billpavelic wrote: | I have been watching this "terrorist" case and concluded that it is based on overzealous prosecution. It is apparent that these homless and indigent individual souls were used as a political tool for the Bush administration Homeland Security and Justice Department's propaganda purposes. The entire case was based on classical law enforcement entrapment and fiction. The U.S. Attorney's Office should be ashamed of themselves for targeting and framing these people for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Pavelic |
I agree. And I don't believe it's a coincidence that all seven "terrorists" are African American.
J 
_________________
"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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ForensicGuy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| billpavelic wrote: | I have been watching this "terrorist" case and concluded that it is based on overzealous prosecution. It is apparent that these homless and indigent individual souls were used as a political tool for the Bush administration Homeland Security and Justice Department's propaganda purposes. The entire case was based on classical law enforcement entrapment and fiction. The U.S. Attorney's Office should be ashamed of themselves for targeting and framing these people for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Pavelic |
I think this case needs A LOT more coverage. I hadn't heard of it until now. In reading about it, there have been two mistrials already. Why can't they just let these poor guys go? How many mistrials do we have to have for the gods in the U.S. Attorney's office to have some compassion? Is there any compassion left in them? Anywhere? Someone?
I guess these poor souls are expendable in the war on terror as long as they can give the people a false sense of security. That's what it's all about anyway...keeping the blinders on us. Making us think that they have everything under control. They can solve any case. Its all appearances and politics.
I think the true POWs numbers in the millions, no hundreds of millions. They are the prisoners of the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the War on our Civil Rights. We are all POWs at this point. It's just a matter of degrees. |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ForensicGuy wrote: | | billpavelic wrote: | I have been watching this "terrorist" case and concluded that it is based on overzealous prosecution. It is apparent that these homless and indigent individual souls were used as a political tool for the Bush administration Homeland Security and Justice Department's propaganda purposes. The entire case was based on classical law enforcement entrapment and fiction. The U.S. Attorney's Office should be ashamed of themselves for targeting and framing these people for crimes they did not commit.
Bill Pavelic |
I think this case needs A LOT more coverage. I hadn't heard of it until now. In reading about it, there have been two mistrials already. Why can't they just let these poor guys go? How many mistrials do we have to have for the gods in the U.S. Attorney's office to have some compassion? Is there any compassion left in them? Anywhere? Someone?
I guess these poor souls are expendable in the war on terror as long as they can give the people a false sense of security. That's what it's all about anyway...keeping the blinders on us. Making us think that they have everything under control. They can solve any case. Its all appearances and politics.
I think the true POWs numbers in the millions, no hundreds of millions. They are the prisoners of the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the War on our Civil Rights. We are all POWs at this point. It's just a matter of degrees. |
Again, I completely agree. These cases are usually reported ONLY in the local media, and then with the purpose of tainting the potential jury pool, slating it to be highly pro-prosecution long before the trial even begins. Then when the people selected showed up for jury duty, they came in with a strong agenda to convict, conveniently forgetting that the state in fact had an extremely weak case, if any at all.
I think it would be a safe bet to say that's exactly what happened in the Cindy Sommer case, and in all other cases where very flimsy "evidence" was used. Any evidence which would have created strong reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury was excluded by the judge, who most likely was biased in favor of the state.
However, I'll make an exception for the Cindy Sommer case, as the trial judge (Judge Deddeh) realized he had made an error by allowing the prosecution to present the "behavior evidence" he had previously said he wouldn't allow, and ordered a new trial because of it.
J
_________________
"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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billpavelic
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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The Sears Tower Bombing case will become a classic because the indigent accusers were persecuted by the mighty government and defended by unrecognized men and women who work for the Public Defender's Offices. It goes to show that good lawyers don't have to be celebrity lawyers, in order to make a difference. Kudos to the Public Defender's Office for a job well done. It ain't over.
I am eleated that WhatSayYou is exposing the Sears Tower Bombing case. With your involvement, the accusers will be able to prove that "David" can still take on "Bush" and that good old American justice will prevail.
Best,
Bill Pavelic |
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SaberGal
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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So...these guys are homeless, set up by the FBI, and are now being tried as terrorists?
_________________
"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
- E. Burke
__________________________________________
That's OK. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. (Insert rolly eye emoticon here) |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| SaberGal wrote: | | So...these guys are homeless, set up by the FBI, and are now being tried as terrorists? |
Sure looks that way to me! I guess in this administration, which favors the rich and the vastly wealthy corporations, being homeless is now a "crime" too, just not a publicly acknowledged one. 
And some of these "geniuses" in the White House wonder why the majority of Americans have nothing but contempt for their government officials! If they had anything resembling a clue, they'd realized they all EARNED it, all by themselves! 
J
_________________
"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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ForensicGuy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| SaberGal wrote: | | So...these guys are homeless, set up by the FBI, and are now being tried as terrorists? |
Don't forget that this case is out of Florida. Cynthia Sommer's case had a Florida connection too.
I see far too many cases with public corruption coming out of Florida. It seems that the 11th Circuit is allowed to do whatever it wants. They even have rules that go against Supreme Court Rulings, where they are the only circuit to have these particular rules. |
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billpavelic
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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The government is in the business of overcharging accusers of crimes they didn't commit .... and...use the outrageous sentencing guidelines to "persuade" the suspects to plea guilty to some peripheral issues. This practice has been perfected by Florida and other states. The plea agreement usually involves probation thus giving the government an opportunity to get back at the suspects who are usually semi-homless and marginally mentally challenged. Millions of people are on probation or parole and directly under the control of government.
I was surprised the government has not sought a plea in the Sears Tower Bombing case in order to save face and cover up their miscarriage of justice.
Respectfully,
Bill Pavelic |
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SaberGal
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| billpavelic wrote: | The government is in the business of overcharging accusers of crimes they didn't commit .... and...use the outrageous sentencing guidelines to "persuade" the suspects to plea guilty to some peripheral issues. This practice has been perfected by Florida and other states. The plea agreement usually involves probation thus giving the government an opportunity to get back at the suspects who are usually semi-homless and marginally mentally challenged. Millions of people are on probation or parole and directly under the control of government.
I was surprised the government has not sought a plea in the Sears Tower Bombing case in order to save face and cover up their miscarriage of justice.
Respectfully,
Bill Pavelic |
Yes, millions under the control of the government via probation/parole so that they can be used to "snitch" or "set-up" other people, IMO.
_________________
"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
- E. Burke
__________________________________________
That's OK. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. (Insert rolly eye emoticon here) |
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ForensicGuy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| billpavelic wrote: | The government is in the business of overcharging accusers of crimes they didn't commit .... and...use the outrageous sentencing guidelines to "persuade" the suspects to plea guilty to some peripheral issues. This practice has been perfected by Florida and other states. The plea agreement usually involves probation thus giving the government an opportunity to get back at the suspects who are usually semi-homless and marginally mentally challenged. Millions of people are on probation or parole and directly under the control of government.
I was surprised the government has not sought a plea in the Sears Tower Bombing case in order to save face and cover up their miscarriage of justice.
Respectfully,
Bill Pavelic |
Yes, I read somewhere that there is something like 5 million people on parole. That equals a lot of people they can put pressure on to set someone up.
Add to that that CPAs, lawyers, bank employees, TSA employees, all other government employees and many other types of people that are agents for the government now and we truly do have a police state.
It will become apparent to people soon. But, it may be too late.
It certainly seems that the government would want to sweep this one under the carpet with a plea agreement. I'm sure this is why it hasn't gotten the coverage it should have in the government controlled media. |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| SaberGal wrote: | | billpavelic wrote: | The government is in the business of overcharging accusers of crimes they didn't commit .... and...use the outrageous sentencing guidelines to "persuade" the suspects to plea guilty to some peripheral issues. This practice has been perfected by Florida and other states. The plea agreement usually involves probation thus giving the government an opportunity to get back at the suspects who are usually semi-homless and marginally mentally challenged. Millions of people are on probation or parole and directly under the control of government.
I was surprised the government has not sought a plea in the Sears Tower Bombing case in order to save face and cover up their miscarriage of justice.
Respectfully,
Bill Pavelic |
Yes, millions under the control of the government via probation/parole so that they can be used to "snitch" or "set-up" other people, IMO. |
Exactly; and guess what will happen to these folks if they "refuse to cooperate." They'll be thrown back into prison, no doubt! Nothing like the threat of an additional prison sentence to ensure L.E. gets what it wants from anyone on parole or probation, even if it's anything but the actual truth. 
J
_________________
"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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ForensicGuy
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Add to that the people that are convicted felons but off of parole. They still put pressure on them.
I don't know if the guys arrested for the Sears Tower bombing had records or not but it doesn't matter.
They were obviously coerced into confessing. The judge knows it but refuses to force that something is done. If the judge can't free these guys, who can? I know it's the prosecutor but shouldn't it be the other way around?
What I have read, judges are afraid to go against some prosecutors because they are concerned that they(the judge) will be prosecuted. This is completely out of hand.
I think this case demonstrates it better than most I have seen. The judge called for the second mistrial.
I just don't know how a person can be a judge and condone this kind of behavior by prosecutors. |
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JUSTICE1st
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 715
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| ForensicGuy wrote: | Add to that the people that are convicted felons but off of parole. They still put pressure on them.
I don't know if the guys arrested for the Sears Tower bombing had records or not but it doesn't matter.
They were obviously coerced into confessing. The judge knows it but refuses to force that something is done. If the judge can't free these guys, who can? I know it's the prosecutor but shouldn't it be the other way around?
What I have read, judges are afraid to go against some prosecutors because they are concerned that they(the judge) will be prosecuted. This is completely out of hand.
I think this case demonstrates it better than most I have seen. The judge called for the second mistrial.
I just don't know how a person can be a judge and condone this kind of behavior by prosecutors. |
From what I understand, many judges are simply scared to death of being labeled "soft on crime/criminals" by over-zealous prosecutors with political ambitions themselves. IMO that's why we have so many judges who are afraid to rein in these prosecutors when they know the prosecutors are abusing the power of their offices.
Too many judges these days are acting more like politicians than jurists who are supposed to apply the LAW fairly and impartially. And when you have judges who are former prosecutors themselves, they become what's known as a "rubber stamp for the state." A VERY bad situation indeed.
J
_________________
"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954 |
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