Uncensored Justice System Discussion

JUSTICE1st · Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 715 Location: USA

We all know the old saying "any person who represents himself has a fool for a client." Well, I do NOT think that statement applies in all cases, and I've said a couple of times already, I find that statement rather insulting. Are those who continue to insist that such is the case really saying we're all stupid, just because we don't have law degrees or licenses? I certainly hope NOT!

Now, there are SOME people to whom this statement would apply, but that doesn't mean it applies to ALL people. This statement WOULD apply to those who:

1. Haven't done ANY research or read any books on the law in general or criminal law/criminal procedure in particular, yet insist on representing themselves anyway.

2. Have English language difficulties of any kind, and may misunderstand the translation from English to their language in a courtroom.

3. Have severe mental health issues as Mr. Benayer undoubtedly did. And in his case, I wouldn't call him a fool, just someone who was suffering from severe mental illness, and wasn't fit to even attempt to represent himself, especially in a murder trial.

That being said, I don't believe it does or should be applied to everyone, just because they're not attorneys or have the money to HIRE good attorneys. Even the best attorneys we all know of now were law students once upon a time, and they had to learn, through reading the books and using any other materials available to them in law school, how to be a good attorney.

There is a line from one of my son's favorite HARRY POTTER movies (The Order of the Phoenix, to be exact): "Every great wizard started out as no better than we are now....STUDENTS. If they could do it, why not us." Why not indeed.

If we all had the same access to the same books, teachers and tools that law students now have, we could have the same education, and have the same ability to at least represent OURSELVES effectively, should we ever be accused of a felony offense for which a trial is required.

It is GETTING the same kind of education that would be what we need. But we're not incapable of learning, if we want it badly enough.

What say you all?

J Cool

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"We must remember, always, that accusation is not proof, and conviction depends on evidence and due process of law."
EDWARD R. MURROW, 1954

SaberGal · Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Oregon

I think that self representation is definately better than a defense attorney who is willing to sell out his/her clients as some attorneys do.

But a good understanding/education of the law and how the system works is absolutely necessary in order to be effective and I'm not convinced that very many people can do that. Not because they are "stupid" either - just to believing and trusting in the system if they are innocent of the crime. How many times, in these stories of wrongful convictions, do many of the exonerated say, "I just never thought I would be found guilty because I didn't do it." At the very least, I think someone wanting to represent themselves should have an advocate that is familiar with the tactics employed by LE and DA's to get a conviction.
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"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
- E. Burke
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That's OK. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. (Insert rolly eye emoticon here)

JUSTICE1st · Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 715 Location: USA

SaberGal · Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Oregon

I think we pretty much agree then - self representation is not the best but much better than settling with an attorney who will sell or plea you out - especially if you are innocent. I just think that anyone wrongly accused of a crime needs to know exactly what they are up against and too many people are too trusting (mainly because of what we are taught to believe) in the system. Prosecutorial misconduct is rampant and fast growing. Nifong was not an isolated case - just a public one. And possibly he was used as an example to fool the public into thinking that his despicable and unethical conduct is taken seriously by the powers that be - my opinion is that it's only taken seriously once exposed to the public. This is, of course, as always, just my humble opinion. Clipeste din ochi

_________________
"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
- E. Burke
__________________________________________
That's OK. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. (Insert rolly eye emoticon here)

JUSTICE1st · Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 715 Location: USA